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Linux Peace

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Punkrockwarl ord
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Description:	I'm sick of reading about Kubuntu fans saying how much better KDE is than Ubuntu and GNOME and vice versa, what the hell are you fighting over, we're all using Linux! Why Linux users would fight over various distros just seems dumb to me. People are acting like Ubuntu and its deratives are the only Linux distros, and that somehow they are competitors?! Aren't you forgetting about Gentoo Linux, Mandriva, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Debian, Fedora, SUSE Linux or any of the other 200 Linux distros? Join this group if you're tired of and against all of the groups consisting of "No Ubuntu bla bla bla"-, "Kubuntu is better than Ubuntu"- or "Ubuntu is better than Kubuntu"-bullshit! Also while we're at it, people are fighting over different desktop environments, like "KDE vs GNOME" and so on, I find that just as dumb. Personally I am a Ubuntu fan and I love Gnome, but that doesn't mean I don't like KDE or Kubuntu, or any other distro. Sure, some distros I like better than others, but I don't go on flaming the ones I didn't like.
Homepage:	http://www.linux.org
Members:	90
Comments:	88

Created:	Jul 1 2008
Changed:	Jul 24 2008
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ubuntu....

by TheRob on: Sep 7 2008

Score 50%

TheRob
Home

The oh-so-talked-about ubuntu... well,
ubuntu targets new users, trying as
hard as possible to be e free version
of windows... or at least a replacement.

..and that's a good thing, because it
makes linux more popular, however,
it gives the users a feeling they are
using some "special" linux os, and
that is very far from the truth.

I too had that feeling until I tried
out other distros and found out that
every distro has it's shiny spots,
ubuntu's is the easy of use... and
that's pretty much it.

and about gnome, it think Linus Torvalds
said it as good as it can be said:
"If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it."

I don't mean to mean to be an ass but
this crap about ubuntu being so great
has got to stop... really

\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
Reply to this

Re: ubuntu....

by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 8 2008

Score 50%

Punkrockwarl ord
Home

See, those are the kind of statements that really ticks me off, "Ubuntu is too popular and simple, thus making it bad"... No, I know people who've been working with Linux for many, many years, people who are so skilled with computers that I doubt I will ever reach their level, people who've tried extremely many distributions, yet they use Ubuntu both at work and at home.

And "trying as
hard as possible to be e free version
of windows..." what the hell??! I've got nothing to say about that remark other than that the stupidness of it really blows my mind...

Now I agree with you when you say that people, a lot of them, tend to believe that Ubuntu "is the best OS", completely false, I say. But then again, there's only so much you can do with ignorant people.

Also when I tell you that Ubuntu is my distro of choice, mind that I have tried Arch, Fedora, Mandriva, OpenSUSE, Mint, and, last and least Xandros, and yet I still came back to Ubuntu. I am not trying to say that Ubuntu is the best distro, not at all, I'm just saying it's MORE than simplicity. And I want people to be free to choose their distro without the influence of people trashing various distro's!

Also that dumb statement about GNOME REALLY tops he cake... Again may I remind you that people should be free to choose what they like? Personally I like GNOME, I love GNOME. I don't instantly start disliking KDE because of that, unlike you; yes, I know for a fact that you used GNOME not too long ago, and that you just started liked KDE after trying it a while ago. I doubt that you were an, in your own words, idiot when doing so. And I know that I'm not one, so that statement about GNOME is just utter bull!

Knowing that Linus encourages people to use KDE, I just lost respect for him. However I'm grateful for Linux, but I stand by freedom of choice!

sudo apt-get remove windows
Reply to this

Re: Re: ubuntu....

by TheRob on: Sep 9 2008

Score 50%

TheRob
Home

Yeah , well, that was exactly what
I had expected to get :)

no problem, the windows statement
I knew you would react very strongly
to, it's just that I have even read
a lot of magazines that compare ubuntu
with windows :D so I just put the
pieces togheter :)

...oh okey, I can think of one other
good thing in ubuntu, and that is
aptitude, the fastest package manager yet
(don't know tho, maybe conary is faster
these days).

and yeah, I also thought gnome was really
great until I started missing too many
features and kde4 was out...
(bout 6 months ago or so) I started
out with kde and boy it was everything
I wanted it to be.

however, gnome is really easy to use,
I know that, and therefore is the
best choice for a lot of people.

I don't mean to start a fight mister I
am just tryin to make a conversation.

in the end, peoples opinions matters
,if there wouldn't be a kde vs gnome
fight going on, no new user would know
what would be for him or her :)

sorry for taking a crap on ubuntu tho,
and I really like your signature :D

//Robert

\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
Reply to this

Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 11 2008

Score 50%

Punkrockwarl ord
Home

No worries, all I mean is that all Linux users should stick together! Rather than fight over stupid stuff.

My reaction might have been harsh but as you said, it seemed like you took a large dump all over Ubuntu which I find very unfair, as I really love it (I am no programmer, but I consider myself familiar with Linux in general, and Ubuntu is my fave distro so far!).

And I like Gnome, it might be simple, but it can still be advanced enough to be productive, even for programmers and advanced users. Not that I have anything against KDE, in fact I think KDE looks great too!

Everybody's free to have their own opinion on stuff, I just find it unnecessary to fight over Ubuntu and such, I know there's a lot of ignorant, idiotic and maybe stupid users that think Ubuntu is better than everything else, but don't let Ubuntu suffer for it.

I like the new Fedora, might install it on my second PC in the near future!

TW, thanks for the comment on the signature, it's a quote from the Ubuntu forums so sadly I'm in no place to take credit for it. :p

sudo apt-get remove windows
Reply to this

Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

by Fri13 on: Sep 13 2008

Score 50%

inactive user

"My reaction might have been harsh but as you said, it seemed like you took a large dump all over Ubuntu which I find very unfair, as I really love it (I am no programmer, but I consider myself familiar with Linux in general, and Ubuntu is my fave distro so far!)."

As far I know (and I have seen), the anti-Ubuntu does not come from that Ubuntu is popular. It has reasons. And the reasons are that Canonical is littlebit like a Microsoft. It bash other distributions, not by purpose, but by it own marketing. It spreads the false information (not by purpose) with it marketing.
It tries to make all the deals for it self, because after all. Canonical is corporation there just like Microsoft and Novell. They are just using Linux as Operating System and all other application, to build their own products, what they markets for normal people as different operating system.

Telling the truth does not mean that you should give all the information right away on face of new user who does not want to learn computer at all. But it does not mean that you can twist the terms and information by only purpose to sell your own product.

I dont see Canonical as bad, but I dont see it good either. Canonical is like Novell, but in different way.

Actually what I see in bad way, is the Ubuntu community. Their total fanboyism towards Ubuntu, they edits the wikipedia and bash the _own_ "truth" on forums. Long term Linux users does not like it. Just like they dont like about Linux vs GNU/Linux or KDE vs GNOME wars.

Personally, I have get enough with all kind wars (Browser, Desktop Environment, Operating System, Office applications... You name it), but what Ubuntu brings, it is not all good. IMHO best thing what Ubuntu has done is to bring Linux in minds of hardware manufactures... but same time bad thing is, it only tries to make them to support Ubuntu, not the Linux. In this case the openSUSE community is better, because they are willing to offer help for HW manufacturers to build and upkeep drivers to devices what they build.

There are few distributions what are upstream friendly, one of those is Mandriva and others are Arch and Slackware too (and few other not-so-known). They (Mandriva) are doing great job by delivering Linux operating system for normal users, but still helping and working greatly with upstream.

I dont like to bash the other distributions, but we actually have problems and source for those are from community and commercial production. Commercial in good faith is good for all, but because it is almost everytime to support only own products and own business, it goes little bad, what fast turns to be the bad "In Good Faith".

We, as users have power to turn bad to good. We cant fight against it bad, because it just brings fighting. We need to fight against it with good.
We should inform new users what Linux really is (not just a kernel, but the operating system), what is GNU/Linux and what is Distribution. And how the open source community works. Because so many new users (usually Ubuntu because it is popular) believe that Ubuntu is someway a unique operating system because of GNOME. And as sad it is, we should teach to them the modular architecture of software system, even it is very complex thing to teach.

We should teach Ubuntu users the meaning of Ubuntu. Because now it looks like Ubuntu users are like own kind Tribe there.

As sad it sounds, but "Ubuntu Tribe" just fits almost perfectly for Ubuntu users. And they are little bit a hostile against others. (I dont say that other distribution users are much better, but they dont have usually such "tribes").

KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)
Reply to this

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

by TheRob on: Sep 15 2008

Score 50%

TheRob
Home

very well put!

I agree with you that it's great that
ubuntu has started a new kinda cooperation
with hardware manufacturers, I think
that is important.

//Robert

\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
Reply to this

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

by Fri13 on: Sep 15 2008

Score 50%

inactive user

"ubuntu has started a new kinda cooperation
with hardware manufacturers, I think
that is important."

It is very great and important, as long it actually goes as it should go.

You make always drivers for Linux operating system, not for any specific distribution. And commercial manufacturers has tend to support only one(few) distribution, what is bad.

Thats why I like more OpenSUSE attitude, that they take care that drivers are for all distributions, because they make drivers directly universal mode to Linux operating system (kernel)so they come to all distributions then.

Problem is that now many Ubuntu user is demanding that hardware manufacturers starts supporting Ubuntu. That they place Ubuntu logo to device boxes to tell that it is design for Ubuntu.
Now we have got the Tux to be printed to device boxes and now it should be removed and replace by Ubuntu logo, or place Tux and Ubuntu together there as they would be two different OS's..

Thats why I dont like what Canonical and Ubuntu community is doing, with believing they have somekind special "OS". I just want that all what is done, is done right in the first place. I dont like to see Canonical to be Microsoft 2.0.

KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu

by 24Scorpions on: Sep 15 2008

Score 50%

24Scorpions

Fri13 wrote: "I dont like to see Canonical to be Microsoft 2.0."

- How could Canonical ever become Microsoft 2.0 when they don't earn any money on Ubuntu? (Except from support calls, but most use the forums for info anyway). It's still open source, it's still Linux!

Skrip ni sair ja leit.
Reply to this

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu

by Fri13 on: Sep 18 2008

Score 50%

inactive user

"- How could Canonical ever become Microsoft 2.0 when they don't earn any money on Ubuntu?"

I dont mean that Canonical would come such big company in IT world as Microsoft, but it would start actin more like the Microsoft.

Microsoft rules the IT world with Windowses. You dont have much choise to choose other OS's like Linux or OpenBSD when you go to buy a market PC.
Same thing is happening for Linux OS among it's distributions. It is harder to find a PC what would not have Ubuntu on it but other Linux OS distribution.

You read only about Ubuntu on IT magazines, news, typical normal users wondering should they try the "magicall OS called Ubuntu".

There would not be anything wrong on Ubuntu if it would not be believed as "special OS". Ubuntu users should understand that they are actually using Debian. And what is most important, that they use same OS than all other distributions users do.
And it is important too to understand the community. The world of open source. They should know that Ubuntu users use same GNOME as does Mandriva or OpenSUSE users. They might have just different menu.

It is hard to tell truth for people, who believe only what they can see. Even that you would strike a computer science book in front of their nose, they would still believe that marketing hype what "Ubuntu tribe" spreads.

All hardware is currently done primarily for Microsoft Windows NT. It is not so long time when we got first officially supported Linux devices to market. And now Canonical and "Ubuntu tribe" wants to get only Ubuntu supported hardware. Because they dont understand what Linux in reality is.

We should inform the new users with history and about facts what is what and how things works. And Canonical is not doing good job with it's marketing. It is just a commercial company like Novell or RedHat but littlebit more "bad" on their blood, because no one is sure where does Canonical get all it's money because it gets money from strange places. Only sure thing is some of the money comes from support lines and their own support-platform application.

I have now followed few "big" IT magazines on my country, where many Ubuntu user brings Ubuntu in every discussion what there is. No matter is it about cell phones or Microsoft, it always turn to be "Ubuntu is best OS what you can get to run this, Microsoft/X is nothing!".
They are always speaking that how Firefox is part of best Operating System and how Ubuntu has better code than others and better support etc. And same time they referr Linux-distributions as "Linux-based Operating Systems" as Distribution == Operating System.

And every news or other post where is information about new hardware or posts about problems running the Ubuntu, they say "Have you make sure that your hardware is qualified to Ubuntu Operating System?" And if someone even question their "Operating System", they start bashing you right away saying that OpenSUSE, Slackware etc are other Linux-based Operating Systems and different than Ubuntu and you need to get supported hardware for Ubuntu and not for "Linux" because "Linux is just a kernel".

And they get this information from Canonical Marketing what is even against computer science.

So Canonical is acting more like Microsoft 2.0, even that it would not be such big company.

KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu

by 24Scorpions on: Sep 18 2008

Score 50%

24Scorpions

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re ubuntu

@Fri13

I understand what you mean, good post!

But the IT magazines I've read that has written about Ubuntu, focus very much on how user friendly the distro is. And to a normal windows-user, Linux is not very user friendly.

If a total Linux newb is going to try Linux, he needs something easy to start with. And Ubuntu is probably the most user friendly distro to start with for a user that never tried Linux before, so it's natural that they talk about it. But I agree that Linux should not be left in the shadow, of course. People should be told that Linux is the operating system and that there are other just-as-good distros. And they should know that they're using Debian and so on, and that they can use gnome on e.g. Mandriva.

But I think (and hope) that if a user starts with Ubuntu and likes it, he will eventually try out the other distros. (I still use Ubuntu myself, though)

And I totally agree that canonical should at least put the Linux logo on the home page, as should every distro.

Skrip ni sair ja leit.

Re: Ubuntu

by Fri13 on: Sep 22 2008

Score 50%

inactive user

Hmm... seems that "reply to this" does not work in this thread anymore.

"And Ubuntu is probably the most user friendly distro to start with for a user that never tried Linux before, so it's natural that they talk about it."

Yes, Ubuntu is very user friendly. But I would not say it is most easier to use. Because I have gave lots of help for old users (very little computer usage in their life + dificult to learn new things) and new users (Ex-Windows users who want to learn Linux) and I have found that openSUSE or Mandriva are best distributions what is out there for them. Why? Because those includes great tools for system management. It is easy for them to learn what to do without going trought forums asking things.

Still it is for me easier to take SSH to their computer and do the "magic" via CLI but I prefer the way that they get easy learning curving and if wanted, they can get deeper to learn more. Without knowing first the sudo and CLI what happens everytime with Ubuntu (I have gave many times a Ubuntu first, until I turned it to Mandriva and sometimes to openSUSE now when they got 11.0 out). The #1 problem is, that they feel littlebit "outsiders" because if few other their friends speaks only about "mystical Ubuntu".

So, then it is time to tell what the distribution means and the open source community. What I always try to avoid (they dont need to know that on first week). But when I tell them these things, they get the "Lightblub" over their head and they really understand the whole community and the work what is done. I wish same would be with most Ubuntu users but some reason they block their minds just for Ubuntu :-/

And I totally agree with you. Canonical should include Tux on their page. They should tell the people the Truth about Linux. They should tell that it is the operating system and not just a kernel, like it would be somekind microkernel.

They should add the Linux on their distribution name. First it was "Ubuntu Linux" but they dropped off the "Linux" because it was so "scary". I would say that they should keep it there, because it reminds about the truth and the software revolution what is happening.

But I think the reason for not include it is GNU. Because Canonical is huggin so much the FSF and Debian, they need to play with their rule with the political "GNU/Linux operating system, Linux is just a kernel" propaganda. They can not add Tux or Linux name to their distribution because otherwise, Debian and FSF could piss off. But Canonical does not understand that same time when they denied the truth of Linux, they play to pockets of Microsoft. Because everytime when someone says that "Distribution is same as Operating System" or "GNU/Linux is the operating system", you give just one reason more to Microsoft to add stuff to their operating system because they can say "Public believe that browser is part of operating system so we made it to be a part of operating system".

If I would have position to demand, I would right away demand Canonical to tell truth about Linux on their documents and sites, rename Ubuntu to Ubuntu Linux and add tux logo to their site too and tell that Ubuntu is just one distribution among others of Linux operating system!!

KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)