|  | | Guidelines and Concepts
Sep 20 2012 on group FluiDE (New Computer Interfaces Discussion) |
Nice prototype. The interactivity makes the ideas included more clear. As playground it is perfect.
With HTML5, CSS3 and JavaScript there is a lot of things possible. The UI may look any way. It reminds me a time where applications had their own original look and usability. But at those times it was a problem, because users must learn every application to use.
The problem was solved over years with GUI toolkit (GUI components etc.). Such toolkit was library programmed for each operating system or each Desktop Environment.
It was also a solution to low memory of a desktop computer, where application shared the GUI toolkit in order to save memory footprint.
With HTML5 etc., there is similar problem to per application original look and usage. One can say it can be solved the similar way with programming a HTML, Javascript toolkit. Yes it is possible. But in the end many applications could be unsatisfied with such toolkit and their developers would choose to create their own toolkit. So I think that instead of making a toolkit or HTML/JavaScript API, there must be some guideline (concept) desription which most of application GUIs or most of GUI libraries or most HTML/JavaScript toolkits have to follow.
The guidelines only says how the desktop would look and function. Such thing is already done with Human Interface Guidelines ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_guidelines ) which should the DE guideline stand on and freedesktop.org ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedesktop.org ) which is a project to make X-Window toolkits offer the same usage from a user's experience (such that applications using KDE toolkit would be very similar in usage as applications in GNOME and vice versa). The HTML/JavaScript guideline should play the same role as freedesktop.org.
The guideline must be not too complex in order to allow a wide range of applications to follow it. On the other hand there could be some more guidelines (concepts) for example a General User UI Concept, Administration Concept (concept for system administrators - terminal etc.), Graphics and multimedia concepts (like DTP, 3D creations, movie creations etc.), Server System Concept, and so on.
Maybe we should make difference between a "guideline" term and a "concept" term. The difference is that "guideline(s) is enough general to make wide variety of GUIs following it. The "concept" is more specific and describes for example a HTML/JavaScript "components", desktop, icons, functionality. The concept is only a document describing functionality and look of a toolkit, but it is not programmed toolkit. To explain it exactly lets say the GNOME is a coded toolkit. The GNOME concept is only a document describing the GNOME toolkit. With such description the GNOME developers exactly know what is a Gnome-Shell and what should it do and then they develop the Shell in C++.
So we can make a guideline and then a FluiDE-HTML/JavaScript concept (what is a document describing the FluiDE desktop) and developers can then code their own FluiDE toolkit exactly build for their single application. Then they need not to share any of HTML/JavaScript code among applications from different developer groups and all applications will look and function very similar.
Of course as well as web application frameworks are created (Joomla, Drupal etc.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks ) there could also be finished coded FluiDE toolkit or many other toolkits and frameworks shared among applications from wide range of developers.
The primary goal of a guideline is making usage over wide range of applications very similar (preventing a user to learn how to use every application) etc. The concept is a specific (but still anough general and open) to create UI (to say it exactly the GNOME concept exactly describes the GNOME DE and developers can create their own toolkits and frameworks which would look and behave exactly as a GNOME DE - so there could be per application specific GNOME DEs with or without sharing the framework).
Our task could be only to create very smart concept(s) which they really worth to follow. Plus code a FluiDE DE - as a real working example of what the concept is capable of. And if the FluiDE code will be perfectly written, it could be shared and meet with a success.
These are my thoughts today.
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| | | Re: Re: Re: Prototype
Sep 18 2012 on group FluiDE (New Computer Interfaces Discussion) |
I cant make it to work with latest browsers. I only see the BG image, clock and the topbar with only an Overview button. Nothing more. Can you pls, write what browser and what version you are using (where this could work)?
BTW last friday I passed the last of my half-year (semestral) exams on University. So I will have more time now to devote to FluiDE. Next half-year I also will study User Interfaces on University. So I would be more helpfull next year in this matter. |
| | | Re: Re: Re: Some thoughts
May 31 2012 on group FluiDE (New Computer Interfaces Discussion) |
Hi and Welcome to the group. It is very nice to see some more person here :)
I have just read your comment. My English is still not perfect, so I had to read it three times and slowly with dictionary and I hope I understand it correctly. As I understand you are talking about booting Operating System. Fast load with text bases windowing system, where you can work in the meantime the GUI is loaded. With the option the GUI need not to be loaded. It sounds like interesting option.
I assume you have also some administrator skills (or Are you an experienced administrator professional?). Ok. In some discussion in my country (not English) I posted my dream when Operating System fully boots in 1 to 3 seconds. I got answers that the long booting is due to BIOS (which makes many checks) and then Linux optimizations (checks, loaded services and loading many mess of unoptimized system). I also got some answers on Operating Systems to load very fast.
For example linux distribution "Tiny Core" boots in VirtualBox at about 7 seconds (counted after pressing Run button). I also got this youtube video, where some guy boots Windows XP in VirtualBox. It is very interesting. I just note that someone commented the video as "When I watched the video, I almost fell off the chair, how fast it worked." - what speaks for itself - link on video follows:
http://youtu.be/H-LinhTC4jw
Some new talks about Microsoft being working on new operating system. It should remove Windows and it should be much smaller in size than Windows. I suppose the system is about virtualisation. But of course Microsoft specific implementation of monopol.
What do you think about fast full system booting? Is is worth to work on it? Or is it better to devote time to get lower UI loaded much faster with possibility to load GUI later?
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| | | Re: General plan ideas
Apr 23 2012 on group FluiDE (New Computer Interfaces Discussion) |
Yes I think we can concentrate on that. Few days ago I realized that you, Mike, have ideas about the DE itself and you are good in thinking in that point of view. So I will also try to think in that point of view and bring ideas about the DE. I think we both still bring newer ideas while the basis of DE goes forward.
For example recently I was thinking about small devices with small touch screen. I'm not talking about iPhone like devices. More I think of a "PSION 5mx" device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5). It has a keyboard and touchscreen, able to be driven with a finger or stylus. Interesting is how the operating system works. And it is interesting to create DE for such device. I got some ideas for the PC DE while I played with the PSION. You can try it too. Here you can download the JAVA based emulator:
http://www.garethjmsaunders.co.uk/psion/emulator32_java.html
here are installation instructions (doesn't need to follow all of them):
http://www.garethjmsaunders.co.uk/psion/emulator32_install.html
here are instructions to run the Emulator:
http://www.andypryke.com/pub/Psion5mx
to start it (the link above) says:
install_derive:\epoc32\release\wins\rel\EPOC.EXE
install_drive is by default C:
This emulator runs on Windows and WINE perfectly.
Note: Although this software is called "emulator" it is only an SDK. But works like an emulator.
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| | | Re: Re: DE - Taskbar, Groups and Desktops
Apr 18 2012 on group FluiDE (New Computer Interfaces Discussion) |
I agree. The video shows only some desktop ideas I had 2 years ago. But I think we are working on more lower things which can be used as basis for many Desktop Environments. The Video shows just one.
I have another idea where Document is the main part of what should everything go around. I'm thinking of many applications to share one document space in memory. Each application holds its own specific version of the document and also provide the shared version to the shared RAM.
Although I had some practical ideas on how this could work, I'm still not sure of how this could work. I was also imagining the operating system is the only one application customizing the document, and real today applications are in that point of view only plugins to that operating system. With OS TVc and other DE parts it could work as a small or very big place for creating documents, fully customizable and extensable.
Both ways need something like shared memory manager - Dokument Manager or something, what holds the shared documents and manages the applications (plugins) access.
Thus the final DE should be handling such windows/documents management, where there is no taskbar for switching applications, but only to switch documents and working spaces for them.
That is one of the idea I had 2 years ago too.
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| | | Re: Re: Re: Some thoughts
Apr 15 2012 on group FluiDE (New Computer Interfaces Discussion) |
I think, David, that you are absolutely right with all you have said.
Firstly the interactive fiction - those text based games were very amusing and had many possibilities. More possibilities than their graphical today versions (Adventures point & click). I was thinking about the text base GUI the same way as you. I wanted to create a text base "kernel" while the GUI could implement it in various ways (with mouse or with keyboard; or with other devices).
The speech I named in TVc is only a future. I meant to develop text based UI with keyboard as a communication device and speech (sometime in the future) would only read the text from memory (synthesize) or use special program for speech recognition (to hear voice) which is converted in a text (and maybe some signs for stress, voice colour and vice versa) with which the OS then works.
Thus the goal I can think recently is only a text based system (without a speech). Interactive fiction is the part I would like to follow.
Secondly the two-dimensional array of pixels. I was talking (in our group) about a "scrollpad". I explained that it is not the point to point device for pixels. More it is a device to move from object to object on the screen (from button to button, from button to text filed, from text field to radio buttons - just to follow X and Y axis and the nearest object).
And that is exactly your proposed frame buffer. I think the mouse could be used the same way as "scrollpad". And both hardware devices - touchpad and mouse - have the ability to become a pixel to pixel pointing device for graphical reasons like image manipulation, 3D graphics etc. Both devices has the capability of using gestures. The touchpad hardware has the advantage that it could be a small or big touchscreen where various things can be displayed and by touching them with finger or with stylus can make appropriate action. The stylus also can be used as a pixel to pixel pointing device, great in handwriting, drawing and also 3D designing.
I think that the frame buffer is the good basis. But to be honest I didn't think of 3D GUI yet, what could be great in some future Human <-> Computer interaction. There are already some devices allowing interaction in a 3D world. The real best known is the XBOX Kinect. Such device (already sold to end users) proposed an era of 3D like devices and many more.
So I would like to think of such matter in our project - looking to a log term living age of it.
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| | | Re: Re: DE - Taskbar, Groups and Desktops
Apr 14 2012 on group FluiDE (New Computer Interfaces Discussion) |
I created the proposed long GIF with screenshots. It can be downloaded from the above linked Blog. The file is located in FluiDE files on SourceForge.net though (in "Discussion Files" folder).
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