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Linux Peace

Distributions

Punkrockwarl ord
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Description:	I'm sick of reading about Kubuntu fans saying how much better KDE is than Ubuntu and GNOME and vice versa, what the hell are you fighting over, we're all using Linux! Why Linux users would fight over various distros just seems dumb to me. People are acting like Ubuntu and its deratives are the only Linux distros, and that somehow they are competitors?! Aren't you forgetting about Gentoo Linux, Mandriva, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Debian, Fedora, SUSE Linux or any of the other 200 Linux distros? Join this group if you're tired of and against all of the groups consisting of "No Ubuntu bla bla bla"-, "Kubuntu is better than Ubuntu"- or "Ubuntu is better than Kubuntu"-bullshit! Also while we're at it, people are fighting over different desktop environments, like "KDE vs GNOME" and so on, I find that just as dumb. Personally I am a Ubuntu fan and I love Gnome, but that doesn't mean I don't like KDE or Kubuntu, or any other distro. Sure, some distros I like better than others, but I don't go on flaming the ones I didn't like.
Homepage:	http://www.linux.org
Members:	90
Comments:	88

Created:	Jul 1 2008
Changed:	Jul 24 2008
Readability:	readable for everybody
Membership:	everybody can join

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STOP to " fanboyism "

by Originaltresh on: Jul 3 2008

Score 50%

inactive user

I think this word resume the situation & it's a critical bug , so : fix it quickly please :p

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Re: STOP to " fanboyism "

by 24Scorpions on: Jul 3 2008

Score 50%

24Scorpions

Fix what? :p

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Re: Re: STOP to " fanboyism "

by Originaltresh on: Jul 4 2008

Score 50%

inactive user

Fix the FanboyZ ! :D

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Re: Re: Re: STOP to " fanboyism "

by Punkrockwarlord on: Jul 4 2008

Score 50%

Punkrockwarl ord
Home

HAHA! Well said! :D

sudo apt-get remove windows
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It's about time...

by ElTimo on: Jul 4 2008

Score 50%

ElTimo
Home

That someone came to his/her/its senses about this. Linux=Freedom, and the freedom to like whichever desktop you think is best. Also, I think that people need to lighten up on the developers, seeing as they (the developers) are doing it out of the love of programming (that or boredom), and that they don't HAVE to work on the program.

Just my $0.02

\"You say \'poe-tay-toe,\' I say \'the wailing of the innocents.\'\"
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Re: It's about time...

by Punkrockwarlord on: Jul 5 2008

Score 50%

Punkrockwarl ord
Home

I agree with ElTimo as well. By the way, the focus of this group was to get people to stop fighting over distros, not to get people start fighting over OS/Car descriptions. Just saying...

sudo apt-get remove windows
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Couldn't be more right.

by zmorganart on: Jul 4 2008

Score 50%

zmorganart

I could not agree more. Why do the different distributions fight so much? I know that we all tend to be proud Linux users, but proud of distributions to the point of hating others? I'm a Ubuntu user personally; I don't think its perfect by any means. I don't pretend to. The thing is, every ounce of energy put into fighting over who's good, who's bad, who sucks, etc. could be put into improving Linux is some form or another. I think part of the problem is the huge intake of users Linux has experienced over the last few years in part due to Vista. A majority have taken to Ubuntu, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some users seem to think that Ubuntu has been given a higher status than other distros. Maybe, maybe not. However, I don't think Ubuntu will stay on top forever. Eventually someone will come along and top it, will there be hate there too? At some point we are just hating progress. (And you may or may not believe Ubuntu has been progressive, but thats not the point.) We need to continue embracing new users, and encouraging others to switch from Mac/Windows. Lets just be sure that we don't lead them into a community of "I hate Ubuntu", "Kubuntu is better!", etc. Sure, make a point for your particular distribution, get the facts out, just don't tar part of the Linux community in the process.

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"Linux peace"

by deniseweird on: Jul 5 2008

Score 50%

deniseweird
Home

I am primarily a GNU user, the kernel could be Linux, Hurd, the OpenSolaris kernel, FreeBSD kernel, or whatever. I intend to ruin the peace as much as I can for anyone referring to Linux as the whole OS. I also despise GTK and GNOME, mainly because:

There has been serious problems with changing themes, where there are some themes which "get stuck", so that once you selected that theme, you absolutely CAN'T change the theme to something else with any graphical tools! The only way to change your theme if this happens is to manually remove configuration files. This problem has been here ever since I started using GNU/Linux (one and a half years), and I wouldn't be surprised if it's been there longer.

The file dialog is utter shit. You are limited with just about anything here. Some functions missing are: Copy, cut, paste, rename, create folder... I also read a while ago someone had a problem uploading pictures in Firefox. There were 20 pictures in the folder. Guess what? The dialog was set to look for files with an extension in lower case (.jpg, .gif, .png..), and the pictures had extensions that were in upper case (.JPG, .GIF, .PNG..). The result was that NONE of the pictures were recognised, and he couldn't upload anything.

Also. While KDE seems to want as much integration as possible between DEs, GNOME just does its own thing and don't care about anything else at all.

So while I am a KDE user and has a lot of love for Qt, I find for example ETK amazing, and I don't have a real problem with MFC or WinForms, but I hate GTK.

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"Linux peace"

by deniseweird on: Jul 5 2008

Score 50%

deniseweird
Home

I am primarily a GNU user, the kernel could be Linux, Hurd, the OpenSolaris kernel, FreeBSD kernel, or whatever. I intend to ruin the peace as much as I can for anyone referring to Linux as the whole OS. I also despise GTK and GNOME, mainly because:

There has been serious problems with changing themes, where there are some themes which "get stuck", so that once you selected that theme, you absolutely CAN'T change the theme to something else with any graphical tools! The only way to change your theme if this happens is to manually remove configuration files. This problem has been here ever since I started using GNU/Linux (one and a half years), and I wouldn't be surprised if it's been there longer.

The file dialog is utter shit. You are limited with just about anything here. Some functions missing are: Copy, cut, paste, rename, create folder... I also read a while ago someone had a problem uploading pictures in Firefox. There were 20 pictures in the folder. Guess what? The dialog was set to look for files with an extension in lower case (.jpg, .gif, .png..), and the pictures had extensions that were in upper case (.JPG, .GIF, .PNG..). The result was that NONE of the pictures were recognised, and he couldn't upload anything.

Also. While KDE seems to want as much integration as possible between DEs, GNOME just does its own thing and don't care about anything else at all.

So while I am a KDE user and has a lot of love for Qt, I find for example ETK amazing, and I don't have a real problem with MFC or WinForms, but I hate GTK.

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Re: "Linux peace"

by Punkrockwarlord on: Jul 5 2008

Score 50%

Punkrockwarl ord
Home

I'm sorry to hear about all the problems you found in GNOME, because personally I must admit I've never experienced any of those problems you described here, might be just me being new to GNU/Linux and they fixed the problems, but as I said, never experienced anything like that. I tried installing Kubuntu 8.04 on my old laptop, just to see what KDE was like, while I found it to be pretty good, I did encounter some problems, problems I never heard about anybody but me having, so it might just have been my old, messed up computer, but anyways my point is that I prefer GNOME, but I don't have anything against KDE. As a pretty well-spoken member stated earlier in a comment; "every ounce of energy put into fighting over who's good, who's bad, who sucks, etc. could be put into improving Linux in some form or another", and I couldn't agree more. If somebody doesn't get everything right the first time, maybe you should try it again, and if you still can't do it, try again, don't throw a tantrum and form groups like "Example SUCKS" etc. Think about all the volunteers who help creat these desktop enviroments, they spend their own free time one programming, for FREE, and may I say I'm impressed by every single one of them, because whatever anybody says, they're doing one hell of a job. So I say, if you aren't happy with GNOME, go over to KDE, and vice versa... Why thrash the thing you couldn't get a grip on, people like different desktop environments because of one thing; people are different, that's right, people are different, accept the fact!

I'm getting mighty sick of all the fanboys out there, as the author of the first comment is.

Anywho, embrace Linux, that's all I can say.

sudo apt-get remove windows
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Re: "Linux peace"

by zmorganart on: Jul 5 2008

Score 50%

zmorganart

I'm glad that you explore alternatives to Linux, and I'm glad you love KDE. That's wonderful, however this group is dedicated to the (broken) Linux community, and the 'fanboy' hatred thereof. Frankly, I have had issues with Gnome and KDE, but I have been known to keep both installed because there are points I like about both environments - but I digress. It is good for the community as a whole when glitches and errors are found and stated, as you have, but only when in a productive matter. That is the only way the programming will get stabler. I am not ignorant enough to believe that the kernels you use are perfect, nor the desktop environments, whatever they may be. I hope that you are helpful enough to pass on the errors through the proper channels or possibly even correct them yourself, depending on your abilities. This group has nothing to do with that, though. It is about unity and moving forward in a civilized manner, something I would think is a noble goal. If you do not like Linux and prefer something else, be it Solaris or (God forbid) Windows, this group then does not even apply to you.
-As a side note, Gnome is not forced on you, nor is Linux. I don't believe anyone said that Linux is the "whole OS". Besides, it is free. Free as in, if you hate the software provided to you enough to use profanity, they (the programmers) would be more than happy to allow you to not use it. In fact, they will allow you to not use it for free. Perhaps you should take advantage of their extreme hospitality.

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An OS is like a car.

by zmorganart on: Jul 5 2008

Score 50%

zmorganart

Some people staring at the flame war about to break out here may be completely dumbfounded. Lets face it, not all people get the whole kernel, desktop environment, etc. difference; many people do not care. I will try to put it simply:

Your OS is a car. In this case, let us say a Ferrari. Many people will buy a car and not care about the internal workings, just that when you press the gas petal, it goes. But for the rest of us:
-The kernel would be the engine. Lets say you are using Linux. The kernel is what makes it what it is. If you replaced the engine of a Ferrari with a lawnmower engine, well, it would no longer be a Ferrari in my book. Also, depending on the model you bought, or the year, there are variations in the making of the engine.
-The desktop environment would be the interior. Gnome, KDE, I don't care which. Different people like different things. Personally I don't like leather seats. You may like one environment more than another, or both equally. Its customization, and its individuality. However, a car does become more difficult to use without a seat. :P
-The extra features would be the applications. Power windows, radio, CD player, upgraded sound system - Multimedia player, messenger, office suite. You can generally get these things on most any car. However, it is part of YOUR car. It is what you want, and it is what you use. Some people need more, some people need less. Beyond that, different models come with different standard (pre-installed) features.
-The model is your distribution. If a Ferrari was Linux, you could get Fedora, OpenSuse, Fedora, PCLinuxOS, etc. They come with variations in engines, interiors, and features. You would buy what is right for you.
-The car as a whole is your OS. Say you don't want a Ferrari, maybe you're more of a Lamborghini person, you can go get BSD. Or maybe you like Ford, well there's Windows for that...

So what does this come down to and why does it matter to this group? Some people think that because others continuously talk about how great their Ferrari is, that they think everything in it is made by Ferrari, and that it is the only type of car. Frankly, many people just don't care. As long as when they step on the gas and it goes, they are happy. Others are car enthusiasts and know every detail about their car. However, some of this same group of people want everyone to state every part of their Ferrari when they talk about it. Why, who knows. Perhaps to clear up ignorance, but some people are very happy to be ignorant. On the other hand, I may know every little bit about my car, but if I always told everyone, it would get annoying and monotonous. So we simply call it a Ferrari, no matter who manufactured the seats.

Which brings me to why this group exists. Many people have come to use Linux, and all the parts thereof. However the users of different distributions, and even desktop environments take it upon themselves to fight over what is best. Like I said before, I may not like leather seats. Its individuality, but some people are narcissistic enough to believe everyone should like what they like. They miss the big picture though. They are all Ferraris. (And if you prefer a Lamborghini or a Lotus, drive one.)

As a last note, people don't drive their cars all the time, and generally don't make war over it. Get up from your computer and walk outside. There's a big world out there while you sit inside rotting in front of your computer arguing over insignificant details. Sure, drive the car, that's why you got it. Just don't sleep in it.

"The struggle to free myself of restraints, has become my very shackles." --Meshuggah
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Re: An OS is like a car.

by Punkrockwarlord on: Jul 5 2008

Score 50%

Punkrockwarl ord
Home

Best damn description I've read! :P
Well said!

Also, wouldn't it be better to give back constructive criticism, you know, tell them what flaws you find in one desktop environment, distro or whatever? It takes about just the same amount of time as it does to create a group where you let the world know what you don't like and why.
If you let the programmers know maybe they could even fix the problems you're facing, because ranting about it does absolutely nothing.

sudo apt-get remove windows
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Re: Re: An OS is like a car.

by Fri13 on: Jul 5 2008

Score 50%

inactive user

"Best damn description I've read! :P
Well said!"

Sorry, I just see it was very terrible. Because OS isn't the all what you get, it is called as System.
OS is the core of the system like kernel is core of OS.

Applications
Desktop Enviroment/Windowmanager
OS
Hardware

Those are the "floors" what you get when you install example, ubuntu or kubuntu. OS is kernel + few libraries (C etc) and programs, and then you add more applications and their libraries so you can work with your computer. And you can add a graphical user interface if you like, but it does not change the OS, or if you change applications.

If you want car analogy, it's like kernel (linux) is car engine, car base model and tiers are other OS parts and then everything else like paint, inside of cars, stereos etc, are just applications what makes it just as one model among others, from same car.

Then we have different cars (Windows, Macosx, OpenSolaris etc) what has different motor, tiers and car basemodel. And then we can change rubber tiers to others or stereos from other car to other, but not all pieces. Example a motor swap is almost impossible or very very hard to do. etc...

OS is just a small piece of that software what you get when you install gnu/linux distribution.

OS isn't the whole car as most people believe, it's just wrong conclusion!

OS is like car motor, you dont see it, you dont actually use it (you use wheel, pedals, chairs etc), motor (OS) is what makes your car (system) run and work as it works, but if car stereo is broken, your car isn't broken, it is just one applicaion. So if you find security hole from firefox, it isn't security hole in OS, it's just in a application. If you find security hole in linux, it's security hole in OS.

KDE is made for users by users....
What can you give back to others?
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Re: Re: Re: An OS is like a car.

by Punkrockwarlord on: Jul 5 2008

Score 50%

Punkrockwarl ord
Home

Well each to his own, right? I don't see how you can call calling the OS for the whole car for a "wrong conclusion", but that's your opinion. If you count the hardware (e.g. your laptop/desktop computer) then your description is perhaps more accurate, but that was not his point, he was merely trying to simplify the description of the OS by comparing it to a car, which I think he did perfectly.

So if you don't mind me asking, how would you describe the OS??

sudo apt-get remove windows
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